Stefan Kaegi / Tjaša Črnigoj

Child Brina: I’m lying so that I'm looking right through the opening in the canopy, and insects are flying over me.

Meteorologist Andrej: I'm lying next to a spruce tree, and when I'm looking up like this, practically almost along the trunk, up towards the canopy, it's such an interesting view, with all these branches that are spread all around.

Singer Diego: It's also the most beautiful sight in the forest, if the sun or the moon are shining, and you can feel the glow through the tree.

Psychoanalyst Lilija: I'm lying down and listening, watching… And trying to settle in for what’s ahead.

Forester Marija: Yes, I'm corrupted by my profession, so I can see that this spruce is not going to be top class, because they haven't done the pruning to make it branchless from the bottom, but it's very branchy. And that the other spruce must have had some kind of disaster because the trunk is a bit twisted, and that the joint is just tight enough.

Andrej: I'm actually surprised that the ground is still so warm.

Brina: I feel small under these big canopies and tall trees. But if I looked more closely at the ground and all the little animals there, I'd feel huge.

Diego: Lili, I wonder why psychoanalysts 
has patients lying down?
 
Lilija: In psychoanalytic treatment, a person 
Lies down on a deck chair or a sofa precisely 
to relax. So that they don't see the analyst, 
and so that they can delve deeper into 
their inner world.
And when they don’t see the analyst, it’s easier
to trigger different thoughts, associations, 
fantasies, ideas… 
And the censorship that we usually use when 
we talk to other people works less than 
it would otherwise.
 

Marija: What is free-floating attention?

Lilija: It's basically a way of thinking. When we're listening to someone, we're listening to them attentively, but on the other hand we're also following our own train of thought if it takes us somewhere. And if at the same time some of our associations or memories are awakened, or if we are paying attention to our own feelings…

Brina: I feel like that it is something that I'm doing right now. I'm listening to you, but I'm also thinking about nature and what's around me…

Brina: Andrej, how do you read the sky?

Andrej: It’s a bit of professional deformation… Whenever I look at the sky, I try to understand what's going on, what kind of clouds there are and so on. On the one hand, I like the fact that I sort of know what the phenomena are and so on. On the other hand, sometimes I look at the sky like any “normal” person, so to speak, any non-meteorologist who sees interesting shapes, maybe some nice storm clouds, which can be very beautiful, for example, or some wave clouds – they are shaped like some flying saucers… Or some cirrus clouds, those thin veils can be very beautiful sometimes.

Brina: Can you make clouds for me?

Andrej: [laughs] We all know that when the air outside is more humid and cooler, when you exhale we say that you can see your breath. The air that we exhale is warm, but when it comes out, in a cold and humid environment, the air cools down quickly and that is why we see a little “cloud”. And this is in principle how clouds form in nature. As the air rises it cools down, and the water vapour in the air starts to condense into tiny droplets and that's how a cloud forms.

Lilija: It’s a bit too warm for clouds…

Lilija: In Russia, during these military parades, they fly certain planes in order to carry out the parade, to clear the clouds so that it doesn't rain. What harm does that do? How does that…

Andrej: Human influence on the weather is very limited. If there is a cyclone or a front, it will bring real rain, and you cannot prevent it. You can, I don't know, break up some shallow cloud layer that doesn't carry much water, for a short period of time. Or maybe you can make the fog less dense or make it break up a little bit faster, or something like that. Let's say, theoretically, that you could intercept a front that was coming in and cause rain because you wanted to end the drought, so that enough rain would fall, you would probably reduce a little bit the amount of rain that would come into the neighbouring country or, for example, into the neighbouring region, right. So, I say, we do not want to start influencing the weather because then we would be fighting and going to war over it.

Diego: What is it like on TV when you have to explain the weather to the viewers?

Andrej: I have found out that people actually understand the text of the weather forecast differently from me who wrote it. And because of that, there have been quite a few misunderstandings. People have said, “you predicted rain, and it didn’t come”, or vice versa, and so on. And I said to myself, if I go on TV, maybe I will be able to forecast the weather in such a way that everybody will understand and that they will really expect the kind of weather that I will expect myself.

Brina: I have watched your weather forecast many times, and I liked that you used to make a little joke at the end. I remember once, when Slovenia was playing against Serbia in a basketball match, you said at the end: “It's going to rain in the Serbian basket today too.”

Andrej: Yeah, sometimes I joke that I like to spice up the forecast a bit at the end so that the people forget what kind of weather I’ve predicted and they can’t criticise me if I don’t get it quite right.

Andrej: Tag, you’re it!

Lilija: I’m it?

Andrej: Yes!

Lilija: Aaa…

Andrej: Oh, this is really fast!

Marija: I don't know who's it!

Lilija: Why do forests need foresters? Is it true that they cannot live without foresters like you?

Marija: Of course, the forest doesn't need us. Things get complicated because we need the forest… We humans get a lot from the forest, we have furniture, we have houses, we burn it to keep warm. Then there's forest fruits, wild animals, recreation, education, research… There are a lot of people in the forest who do something with it and get something out of it. [Diego: mushrooms, mushrooms] Mushrooms, yes. Diego likes mushrooms, here we have a mushroom enthusiast… But in order to get all this from the forest and to follow the rules at least roughly… All this is the responsibility of the foresters.

Andrej: Is it true that the Slovenian forestry school was highly regarded in Europe and that people from other countries used to come to see our forest management teaching method?

Marija: Brač is a nice example of this. Brač was completely bare like most islands, so they tried to reforest it. They tried to do it themselves, but of course it's not so simple. So they called a Slovenian forester who came there and managed to reforest it with the help of seedlings, and I think mainly seeds – I think they even threw them from an aeroplane. So today Brač is one of the most richly forested islands in Croatia. We also had success in Japan, where they tried to reforest it with seedlings but failed repeatedly, and then we told them if there are no fungi on the roots, at least a little bit, that the plant cannot survive, because it only functions in symbiosis. Here it should be immediately added that Slovenia is one of the few countries in the world that has sustainable forest management enshrined in law… So we don't plant and cut down, plant and cut down gain, i.e. timber fields, but we have a forest that we imitate as natural, as primary, i.e. a primeval forest. So we go into the forest and every now and then we cut down what would have fallen down anyway.

Andrej: Squirrel!

Marija: We see a squirrel, it has climbed up the spruce, rushing along with its beautiful bushy tail… So yes, we Slovenians are some of the best foresters in the world, and I think that's so outstanding…

Diego: Where do we export the wood from Slovenia? To which countries?

Marija: For us specifically, what I know, our logs used to go to Austria, mostly conifers. Now, where the Austrians have sold on to… I think China is quite a big market. Namely, China imports goods into Europe and then these containers return to China empty. So it is actually very cheap to transport our goods to China, and that is why it pays off, if nothing else. The Arabs are also major consumers of timber, they don’t have the growing areas to have the kind of assortments that we have.

Lilija: Which tree is the most expensive?

Marija: Among the common ones, so to speak, the larch and the oak have the highest prices. Then there's spruce, fir has a lower price than spruce although it's basically a better-quality wood. And then there is beech. Then there are ash trees, now they are slowly dying out because they are being attacked by some fungus or insect, so they are being sold in large quantities because everybody is cutting them down and the price is not high.

Diego: I'd like to know why the bark beetle is destroying the forests.

Marija: Well, the bark beetle is an insect, it usually has 8 teeth, if we're talking about the European spruce bark beetle. It's an insect that has multiplied quite a lot because of the changed conditions, especially the high temperatures and the fact that the spruce tree can’t defend itself as well.

Diego: But what exactly is it?

Marija: He's just a little beetle.

Marija: It fell a little, but not a lot. Can you try it on the big spruce to get a bit more action… If it's a bark beetle, we'll all be covered in green.

Andrej: Will it work on a big spruce like this, too?

Marija: Yes, yes. […] Did anything fall?

Brina: No.

Marija: I'll try again. It's good to make sure there are no branches above. […] There’s a dog barking, that's all.

Diego: How does it feel to cut down a tree?

Marija: I’ve done two courses on how to use a chainsaw safely, so I’ve cut down a tree or two before. People have very strong prejudice that killing of animals and cutting down trees is something terrible. But the reality is that it’s a benefit to us, so in a way it’s a success, every time we manage to cut down a tree in a safe way and so that it stays whole, that it doesn’t break. Now, you're close to a tree when it’s being cut down – it’s not good to be close anyway, because it’s dangerous, a tree can have tensions inside it, it can knock something else down. So if you are close by, and if you are at a safe distance, always look up, not down, as the tree is falling, because for quite some time, various branches that it has knocked down as it falls, will fall to the ground and can fall on you.

[HUMMING]

Andrej: When I read about the taiga, I always imagined forests like ours, but they are… Are there any other forests in Russia besides the taiga? Or what kind of forests are there in Russia?

Lilija: It's very difficult for me to answer that, because I grew up in a big city, in Moscow. But I spent my summers in a weekend house, a dacha, and there are lots of forests. But they are quite similar to the Slovenian forests. I haven't been to the taiga or the Trans-Siberian Railway [Meteorologist: Well, Russia is huge, it's probably true], I haven't really travelled that far. I mean, I've been to the Urals, but even there the nature is quite similar to the Slovenian nature.

Diego: In Venezuela, right down in the south, the Amazon starts. And it's, let’s say, a special forest, there’s jungle, of course the trees are different, there’s a big river – the Orinoco, the Amazon…

Brina: Diego, since you like mushrooms so much, are there any mushrooms there?

Diego: I was very young when I was in that part of the forest, and I didn't know anything about them [mushrooms]. I learned about mushrooms here in the Slovenian forest, my neighbours taught me. I'm sure there are mushrooms down there, but I don't know exactly what kind.

Brina: What kind of animals are there, are they very different?

Diego: One of the most interesting ones for me, being a bird lover, are the Amazon parrots. Imagine, Brina, suddenly, I don't know, 50 birds are flying, each one two metres long, they're red, blue, orange and very noisy.

Andrej: But isn't this tropical rainforest, on the one hand, an extraordinary biodiversity, but on the other hand, a very fragile ecosystem. If the forest there burns or is cut down, it is difficult to restore it because there is so much rainfall that the substances are washed out of the soil, and it is basically poor soil. Did you know that, Diego, that the trade winds carry this Saharan dust, desert dust into the Amazon? [Diego laughs] I don't know how many millions of tonnes, huge amounts… I couldn't imagine that that was even possible and that it's basically a kind of mineral fertiliser.

Diego: Yes, I've heard that it travels thousands of kilometres and it fertilises.

Brina: Probably people feel best in each other’s company when we are completely relaxed. Like, I don't know, when we sing or something. And I wonder, Diego, how do you feel when you sing? Are you concentrating on anything or do you just let your thoughts do their thing.

Diego: It depends. Opera is also a style where you need a lot of concentration, logic, knowledge, maths. But in general, singing is a sound that is everywhere in the forest and on our planet.

Brina: Do you often sing in the forest?

Diego: Yes, often. It’s one of the most beautiful performances because there's nobody there and you can be actually very honest. There are no expectations.

Brina: Has anyone ever heard you singing in the woods without you knowing, let's say?

Diego: Once there was a neighbour of mine who was obviously in the forest, I think she was picking mushrooms. And the next day she said to me: “Oh, yesterday I heard you were singing opera in the forest.” She was very happy.

Andrej: Diego, what kind of guitar is that?

Diego: This is a cuatro… Cuatro means four in Spanish, because it has four strings.

Andrej: They're usually bigger, aren't they, but this one is smaller…

Diego: It's smaller because shepherds play it.

Diego: I brought the song Tonada de luna llena, and it's because it's a song that reminds me of the sabana. Sabana is a notion, it's like a forest, a landscape by the forest. And this song is sung for the cows. [laughs] Because early in the morning the cows must be, how do you say, milked… [Everybody: Yes, milked.] The cows have to be calmed down and it has to be done with a song.

Brina: There was a study that if you play music to the cows, it can be rock or classical music, they are more relaxed.

Diego: And the Venezuelan farmers found that out a long time ago. You see, so… That's why.

Diego: Luna luna luna…

Others: Luna luna luna…

Diego: Luna llena menguante… It means that the moon is fading, somehow…

Others: Luna llena menguante…

Diego: And then we go… luna luna luna llena… Menguante…

Others: Luna luna luna llena menguante…

Luna luna luna luna llena menguante…

Luna luna luna llena menguante…

Lilija: How do you think this forest will look like in 50 years?

Marija: Well, if the climate change stopped and it was like it is now, which would still not be ideal, but it would be much better than getting worse. These big spruce trees that we're looking at would probably die if nobody cut them down. While these young trees that we see around us and which people often don’t see as forest at all – they would grow

Lilija: Marija, what is the biggest climate risk here?

Marija: Drought is such a silent killer. The bark beetle is also a consequence of drought. So not only is there no snow, but there is also often no rain, even in winter. But when there is a drought in the spring, it really is a total disaster for the tree, because it is trying to grow leaves, at least the deciduous ones. And if it doesn't have water then, it's very miserable and very susceptible to all sorts of diseases and pests. And, of course, also for the smaller increment. So the foresters are most unhappy when we see a forest in the spring that, it's quite amazing to see, but it actually grows leaves later.

Andrej: But do you think that… I've read, let's say, I don't know, that our forests are still in good shape.

Marija: Right, Slovenian forests are not so bad at the moment. Those who have these timber fields, all our neighbours and so on, all over Europe, I think they’re much more at risk and it's harder to get increment and to grow all these seedlings. So, just because of this sustainable forest management, our forests basically have a kind of an advantage. But what will come next… We are now managing with knowledge that we acquired in the 1960s or thereabouts. But is it still appropriate, are we still doing the right things in these forests with our silvicultural work? It is actually very difficult to predict this and say, this strategy will be good and it will help the forest, but this one will not. It is not even possible to predict what will happen to this forest.

Andrej: Lili, before you asked what the biggest climate risk is… I would say that the biggest problem for humanity will be to produce enough food. Because the conditions are changing. I mean, I have a garden at home. Every year there are so many different weather conditions for the plants that give us food. From fruit – there hasn't been a normal fruit harvest for, I don't know, almost five years or so – to, I don't know, garden plants, vegetables and so on. It seems like there are shocks all the time. Either there’s a lot of rain when it should be warm, then there’s hail or drought and so on. I think we’ll soon have problems with food production, which will become more expensive and so on. Of course, not to mention the problem of drinking water because of droughts and so on. So yes, I think that could be a big problem, too.

Marija: Brina, how do you see your future, with all the things you're hearing about climate change and after all considering that there are more and more of us humans in this world.

Brina: I mean… We humans have already reached a point that is hard to fix. As horrible as that sounds, it's true.

Diego: I'm an optimist and I think we will come to understand that we are not the main ones in this nature. That it is a mistake to think that we are in charge, that we all have to manage. Maybe we will come to understand that the animals, the plants, the trees can actually be in charge on this planet. What do you think? Who is the majority?

Brina: I also think that us humans…

Andrej: Diego, I think you were drowned out by the aeroplane.

Marija: We know who is in charge!

Brina: In the cities, for example, when an aeroplane passes over, you don't hear it like you do now. Now it's much more pronounced… We can still hear it. But yeah, it seems to me that people are really going to have to realise that we're not in charge and that we're not the centre and so on. And I think we will, but the question is when and whether it will be soon enough.

Diego shouts

Marija screams

Andrej shouts

Lili screams

Brina screams

All together scream

Lilija: The subconscious… It’s a kind of a process in our psyche or in our mind. It’s very present in all of us. It's like a kind of storehouse that stores different … Oh, squirrel! Sorry, that was really beautiful how a squirrel jumped here. Anyway, as I said, the subconscious is a kind of process, a kind of repository of everything that happens to us, including the memories from which we draw our understanding of this world. Something that affects us very strongly, there are different processes, as well as all our fears, our desires, our dreams…

Marija: The interesting thing is that I often dream that I am driving my car and I get stuck somewhere, or I drive over a cliff somewhere, or something terrible is happening to me with my car.

Andrej: One of my typical dreams is that I'm running but I can't get anywhere.

Marija: Yeah, those are typical.

Andrej: Isn't it terrible?

Marija: It's like running on some kind of dough.

Andrej: I’m not getting anywhere!

Brina: I really hate it when I dream that I'm falling into a void and then I suddenly jerk awake.

Diego: Do you think there are ghosts in the forest?

Marija: I went to the forest once to do something and I really like fog. It's a new sun for me, it’s infinitely beautiful because I find it very mystical. And there was some water, it was winter, and there was a little stream trickling down this little hill. And I was walking towards the stream to cross it when I saw this white woman. She was wearing this white cloak. I'm looking at her and in my style, I say: What is this now, a woman in white. And I said to myself she must be a ghost, and she must have come for me. Parallel universes and so on, I guess I'm already dead or something. What happened didn't even seem very strange to me. And I'm walking towards the white lady, I'm approaching her and she's standing so still, she had this blissful posture. And when I got close enough, there was a split tree that had fallen, and the snow that had been carried by the wind had stuck to the tree, so it looked like a white woman.

Marija: Here, I’ve found a dinosaur bone.

Andrej: I've got five bacteria.

Diego: I found a flint earlier, really…

Brina: I found dirt on my hands.

Diego: You can't believe it…

Marija: So we got to the roots, we cannot go any further.

Andrej: How many kilos of bacteria are there in the human body?

Marija: Isn't it two or one?

Andrej: So there must be a huge amount of them in the soil, too? Everything has to decay and disintegrate.

Marija: It's crumbly, isn't it, the soil?

Andrej: Yes, quite.

Brina: And it's very moist, I think.

Diego: And it smells good… Mmm…

Brina: Indeed, if you go and smell the soil in an urban area, it' s completely different…

Lilija: You smell mushrooms, Diego…

Andrej: Yes, it actually smells like mushrooms, quite distinctly.

Lilija: It really does…

Andrej: Of some nice little porcini…

Brina: There are lots of mushrooms in Brezovica.

Andrej: Where?

Brina: In Brezovica.

Andrej: How do you know that?

Brina: My grandmother lives there.

Andrej: Really?

Diego: Do you pick them?

Brina: We often go, yes…

Lilija: How long have we been here?

Diego: Three, four hours.

Andrej: I would say about three hours.

Marija: What do you think would happen to us if we lay here for seven hours?

Andrej: We'd get hungry.

Diego: We'd get cold, probably.

Brina: I think we would die first from lack of water, and then I don't know how long it would take us to rot, but It would take some time.

Andrej: I've read that corpses decompose a lot slower nowadays than they used to, because we're already so full of… Of all the antibiotics and everything… [others laugh] Really!

Diego & Marija: And we have preservatives in us!

Andrej: And preservatives and all that. We're already partly mummified.

Lilija: But when you die, do you want to be buried or do you imagine something else for your death or for your body after death?

Brina: I mean, I guess…

Andrej: Brina, you don't have to think about that yet…

Brina: Well, if I have been asked… I would probably either be buried or, if I could, I would die, I don’t know, somewhere in nature. But I'd probably get eaten by animals and I’d stink too. So I guess I'd like to be buried, yeah.

Andrej: Now that I'm older, I think a little bit about what it means that I'm going to die. You become more aware of it when you see your functions slowly failing, or I don't know. But I just don't believe in… I just think that when I die, I won't be aware of it anyway and I won't be able to influence it anyway and I won't know what's going to happen to me anyway. So I don't worry about that at all.

Marija: Yeah, I don't really believe in life after death either. So whatever happens to the body, it would be nice to have something that's somewhat eco-friendly and that puts as little burden on others as possible.

Andrej: Exactly, now you reminded me! I was thinking that maybe you could simply donate the body for scientific purposes, if that's still possible. So that students can learn how to dissect or something like that. But I don't think that's possible anymore.

Brina: Yes, it is! I know that if you ask your relatives or something they can just take your organs out of your body when you die, for example for people who need surgery.

Andrej: If I die when I'm 120, my organs will be already exhausted. [laughs]

Marija: Nobody will want to have that anymore. [laughs]

Lilija: Diego, what about you?

Diego: If I could – I know it’s not possible, or maybe it is – I would like to vanish into thin air. That would be the perfect death for me. If you could transform from the physical body into some kind of plasma, I don’t know.

[HUMMING]

Andrej: I remember my grandmother. At the end, she was in a wheelchair and she liked to knit. When she stayed with us, she would knit us sweaters and things like that to distract herself, and she used to read. In the end, she couldn't knit, and she couldn't read because of the cataracts, she could only listen to the radio and she could talk. Most of her friends and acquaintances had passed away and basically she was… Well, she sort of had us, the relatives, but as your generation is slowly passing away, I think that you're also less and less part of this world, in a way.

Brina: I think that once you reach a certain age, your body simply needs some rest or something. I think a lot of people are afraid of death and look at it as something so terrible and bad, but probably death is easier than life and probably… I mean, you’re not aware of it anyway, so I don't know what is so terrible about it.

Andrej: Brina, how old are you?

Brina: 11, but I'll be 12 soon.

Marija: Brina, what are you going to be when you grow up?

Brina: There are many possibilities… Too many. I'm not interested in maths and that. But I might just end up being a forester, I don't know [chuckles]. Nobody knows where the road will take them.

Luna luna luna luna llena menguante…

Luna luna luna llena menguante…

Forrester: Watch out, I'm cutting!

Forrester: Watch out, it's falling!